theres more proof of jesus than of julius cesar

Denz calm down, if you are not up to the debate I'll stop

I belive in Allah too.

Also you do know that the Bible is written by the deciples after Jesus got raised...with that said:

Where in the bible does it say that Jesus died for you?

If you are following the Bible blindly, then I don't see how you will ever convince anyone that Chirstainy is the right religion.

Who said that it is an historical fact? Chistian historians? :doubt:

Steve. I never and will never deny Jesus(AS) ...to me Jesus(AS) is a respected man that was sent to guide the poepl of Israel to the right path

Lol, I am so not getting worked up please don't stop and I am so up to it.

And I did not say I was following blindly, God gave us free will and I choose to believe!
And it is historical that Jesus son of mary and Joseph died on the cross. No-one in the entire world denys that, people deny he rose again.

John 3:16,

For God so loved the world that He gave his only Son, that whoever believed in Him shall not perish but have eternal life with Him.

God gave up Jesus to die for us that we could be forgiven set free and go to heaven.

Lol if you say so

4 posts up:

"But as far as your concearned I'm practically blindly following the Bible who's teachings have no proof!"-Denz

Really, so 1.5 billion people denying it doesn't matter to you? (Muslims deny the crucification)

See what you said:

"God gave up Jesus to die for us that we could be forgiven set free and go to heaven."


Sometimes you speak of them as 1 person but in this case for example you speak of them as 2 differnt things!

If they were the same then you would be saying

"God gave himself up to die for...."-which wouldn't make sense...

P.S: That verse didn't say at all that Jesus(AS) died for you...

its well documented in Christianity that jesus died for our sins, he also said anyone who followed him up to be crucified would meet him again in heaven but no one went with him

Steve, I never said that there is no such thing in Chrsitianity, I just said I want proof (e.g.: A verse from the Bible)

Why don't you believe that the man named Jesus died on the cross, as far as we and athiest are concearned he did, they just don't believe he rose again.


And again it's the trinity, we don't claim to understand it it is a concept that goes futher than a brain can expand,


And I said that as far AS YOUR CONCEARNED I;m following blin.....

But that's true isn't it you think I have no proof and that I just follow along....


Jesus died to give us “redemption through His blood” (Eph. 1:7 NKJV)

Because I do not believe that a Prphet og God or to Chistians, God himself will say :

"Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying my God, my God why hast Thou forsaken me?"- Matthew (27:46)

Doesn't this hsow disbelieve...think about it. A messenger from Go or to to you God saying "God why have you forsaken me. This is utterly disbelieve!!

However the Quran says:

157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

158. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;

- The Women


Tell me...which makes sense to you? :doubt:

I will never believe something that I don't understand the basics of. Amd the basic of modern Christianity is the trinity.

What's your proof Denz?

Ok lets start with so far you to have presented no proof.

Rebuttel: Hmm, that often puzzles me to but don't worry I have youth tonight I'll ask there.

Statment: Christ (through the Christian religion) is the only God who wants relationship with his people, a personal relationship, don't you think that if Allah was the true God he'd love his people enough to want this, or is he too godd to have that kind of relationship?

Challenge: I don't claim to know everything about the religion because I don't and I am shocked that you see that as a negative thing its showing the awsome brain power of God, where as you know everything about yours and apparently understand it all to, does that not show that your God is no better than we as human?

dum di dum di dum...

Do you have clinkers in Egypt they are so good!!!

Hmm, Yummy!

Jesus is the son of god but at the same time part of him,

Ahmed wrote:Because I do not believe that a Prphet og God or to Chistians, God himself will say :

"Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying my God, my God why hast Thou forsaken me?"- Matthew (27:46)

Doesn't this hsow disbelieve...think about it. A messenger from Go or to to you God saying "God why have you forsaken me. This is utterly disbelieve!!

However the Quran says:

157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

158. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;

- The Women

jesus had prayed to God and been told he had to die on the cross, now jesus was divine but he was also human, he couldn't understand why he had to die, but for his faith he accepted it, he could of lived on for much longer but he let them take him, and he let them call him guilty and he let them kill him ultimately.

The passage you picked out shows one of the biggest confllicts in his life... surely if he was just a mad man he wouldnt have this conflict. and if he was a prophet then how could he see his own betrayal?

Once again it doesn't make sense...you are telling me that he wanted to die and at the same time he didn't know/want to die?

Once again: Matthew says:

He was fearful and prostrated in prayer saying "O God, if it is possible for You to let this cup pass from me, then let it pass."

This cup was a cup that Jesus knew had poison in. If he really wanted to die for your (Christains) sins then why did he pray that a moment of death be passed away from him.

Secondly, if as Christains say Jesus and God are one. Then that means he was praying to himself-which doesn't make sense.

Thirdly, how could a Prophet pray and ask God "if it is possibe...", of all people, him doubting the power of God is just blasemy, he knows that God could do anything he pleases. This aslo shows disbelieve in God.

The answer is simple Steve, God told Jesus or sent an angel to tell him...like he spoke to many other prophets.
--------------------------------------------------------
Denz for some reason you keep on asking for proof? Proof of what? If you mean Islam, I already answered once, and if you like more details, this isn't the topic for it

i dont think jesus and God are one, they are certainly 2 different things.

Jesus didnt want to die (Who does?) but he did because God asked him to, it wasnt doubting Gods power, but he was shocked after doing so much work for God that he was being told to let himself be killed

So Steve you don't see Jesus as God or the Son of God? :doubt:

The point Steve is that he is a Prophet, someone that God choose to guide his people.

For example, I don't know if this story is in Christainity too but Prophet Abraham(AS) was ordered by God to kill his son Ishmael(AS). Eventhough Abraham was reluctant in telkling his son what God told him, once he told hi son, his son said "If God told you to do so then do it" , he said this straight away. And for his loyalty when Abraham was about to slay his son, God sent a large sheep so Abraham could slay that instead.

The point of the story is Ishameal's(AS) loyalty andbelieve in God. He knew he was in the hands of God.

So how could a great Prophet fear if according according to Christains God told him to die?!

i see him as the son of God, not God.

has your dad never asked you to do something you dont want to do? i think it was his human side showing through

Yes, thats becuase I am not a Porphet...I am a normal human. However, Jesus wasn't normal...he was a person picked by God. He shoudn't have the same flaws that I have

I am very non-religious. So I reckon it wouldn't be a good idea for me to talk much in this topic.

I'm like the biggest atheist ever.

Why don't you I Lyk Toast? Its a good thing to show everyone your thoughts on these things , especially if the other side allows you to

I don't really want to bring "God" into this but the deeper we evolve into understanding the universe and any new innovations in science related topics, the more God is pushed aside. My mind is a logical one, and I just find religion to be almost, absurd. (No offence to anyone.)

I find it impossible to believe many of the things said in the Bible could possibly be true. My common sense just tells me otherwise.

However, I think that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions.

:agree:

However, I did notice that you refereed to Christianity as "the religion" , as if it is the only one. Have you looked into any other religions?

Hey, what do you find to far fetched about the bible?


And Ahmed you never answered my challenge, and Jesus was heuman he came to Earth and lived eveyday without sinning and what he said wasn't a sin and since when does anyone have the right to compare Jesus to others, I thought he was still important in your religion.

Jesus has done absolutley NOTHING wrong so now that that is straight, lets go back to the plausable debate, such as my challenge and whatnot.

The point is weak let go and move on, according to the debates I've watched on this subject you should have more ammo than that.

(not that it is right either but oh well)

how can you be so sure about what jesus did before his life was documented in the bible, im talking about the gap between his birth and him as a man when he did all the things written about

Jesus is in all history records to. Not just the Bible.

and have you read these records hun?

den denz wrote:Hey, what do you find to far fetched about the bible?


And Ahmed you never answered my challenge, and Jesus was heuman he came to Earth and lived eveyday without sinning and what he said wasn't a sin and since when does anyone have the right to compare Jesus to others, I thought he was still important in your religion.

Jesus has done absolutley NOTHING wrong so now that that is straight, lets go back to the plausable debate, such as my challenge and whatnot.

The point is weak let go and move on, according to the debates I've watched on this subject you should have more ammo than that.

(not that it is right either but oh well)

You see Denz, Muslims see the Christians and Jews as People of the Books (Jews=Torah and Christians=Bible).
The Bible, according to us Muslims, became edited by man (by pope, the process of translating etc.) and is now has flaws, is false and wrong.

However, the Bible in Jesus's time was the book of God. After the editing...not anymore.

I didn't know you challanged me . Anyways, yes Jesus(AS) proabbly never sinned at all becasue he was God's Prophet. You didn't get the point at all Denz, the problem is not with Jesus(AS) , the problem is with the Bible! Its False. The verses from the Bible that I quoted verses back, I quoted them to show you that the Bible is Flase as a Prophet of God...not to mention that you Christains take Jesus(AS) as God or hios son...would never do such acts. Denz you need to be open minded, you see that a Prophet (or to you the son of God) went agaisnt his own teachings (disbelieve) then their is a problem here, and there is only two answers for it...either the problem is coming from Jesus(AS) (which is not) or the problem is coming from the Bible(which is the right answer). And of course Jesus(AS) is an important part of my religion as he was a messenger of God.

You are right Jesus(AS) did nothing wrong...this leaves the Bible to be wrong.