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Steve wrote:

Ahmed wrote:

And surely a day with your Lord is as a thousand years of what you number.

( 22:47)

To Him ascend the Angels and the Spirit in a day the measure of which is fifty thousand years.

(70:4)

i meant those 2...

the logic of your post made my head spin

Ok let me explain it to make it easier for future refrence

In the Quran: Chapter make the Quran (There are 114 chapters in the QUran), you coild alo call them passages. Passages or CHapter are made of verses.

At the end of any verse we put its number in this forumat: (*:*)

The first number or bolded star stands for the passage/chapter number. The second star or underlined one stands for the verse in that chapter or passage.

Therefore those two did come from different passages.

Hope I helped.

but because they come from different passages it imply they are talking about 50 000 of our years, because they didn't specify

No, the Quran is always specific in everything. The Quran is read carefully and not for granted. There are verses that say "of your (human) years"...this one didn't say so it is God years.

Oh and Denz denz, i've read the Bible. I've read quite a number of the books of the Old Testament and some of the Gospels too (especially Matthew's). Some interesting info in the Bible to be honest, the prophecies contained throughout are what really earn my taste actually.



Ok, enough of the scientific facts in the Quran, let's move to the scientific facts in the hadith now .

No Ameer we are still not done

We'll do the hadith's after we are done

Aww, but there's so much I want to talk about in the hadith and its really precise and staggering .

Well, I'll just have a quick check about the verses you have mentioned so far pertaining to modern science so we can move on to more and then move on to the hadith.

The Quran is more staggering since it is from Allah, the creator. The Hadith is from the Prophet (SAW)...

Ok then

Well surely if it's God wording to the letter :affraid:

But so what if it's the Prophet? Isn't the Prophet divinely inspired to say these things and is not like any normal human being? Ok, just a few verses of the Quran showing the Prophet's position in his hadiths:

"Whoso obeyeth the Apostle, he indeed obeyeth God" ~Holy Quran (4:79)


"{1} Erreth not your Companion (Muhammed) nor is he led astray {2} And nor he speaketh of his own inclination {3} It is naught but a revelation revealed unto him {4} Taught him the One Mighty in Power {5}" ~Holy Quran Sura 53 An-Najm


"{53} Say: Obey God and obey the Apostle, and if ye turn back, then on him is what is imposed and on you is what is imposed on you; and if ye obey him ye are guided aright; and nothing is on the Apostle save the clear conveyance {54}" ~Holy Quran Sura 24 An-Nur

There's the proof showing the clear authority of Muhammed (saw) in his wording perfect to the end

Ameer!! I never said anything bad about the Prophet, and I never will. I love the Prophet!

The divinely inspired thinsg are the hadith Qudsi...those were the saying of Allah that were not put in the Quran but Allah told them to the Prophet by Dreams etc.

There are 40 of them. The differnce between the QUran and them is that the Quran is Allah's words straigh out. The Qudsi Hadith are Allah';s words but put spoken in the ay of the Prophet (I hope what I wrote isn't confusing)

Good job, Ahmed. Steve, I just want to expand on what Ahmed said about the different passages in the Holy Quran. The Holy Quran did not desended to Holy Prophet Muhammad S.A.W as a whole. It came, in parts, through revelations, over a period of about 23 years. Then bit by bit it was taught by the Holy Prophet to his followers, so their are similar things maintained in different places, which id why you must read the Holy Quran as a whole and then try to understand it.

Now I would repeat what Ahmed said, is this evidence enough or you require more?

Well obviously you love our Holy Prophet Ahmed, what kind of Muslim would you be if you don't!


It's not just the Hadith Qudsi that are only divinely inspired. It's all of Muhammed's wording (pbuh) since he was ever in communion with his Lord. All the details about the way we pray, recommendations, death penalties for certain crimes, the rites of Hajj, the most loved deeds of God, justice, morals, etiquette and especially his prophecies are all divinely inspired. Note the Quran's words "nothing"- so nothing is Muhammed (saw) giving except clear conveyance. So that includes his recommendations in medicine and so on about the realm of science. And why were they found to be true centuries later? Clearly they're divinely inspired into his pure mouth.

To clarify on the distinction of the Hadith-e-qudsi from the Quran, the following points are to be enumerated: Hadith-i qudsi is from God, the Most Exalted, from the point of view of meaning, and from the Prophet from the viewpoint of actual wording. It constitutes what God has communicated to the Prophet Muhammed through revelation or in dreams. The Prophet informed others of its meaning in his own words. Accordingly, the Quran is superior to the hadith-i qudsi, because it is the actual Word of God.

Firstly, the Quran is a Divine miracle; this does not necessarily apply to the hadith-I-qudsi.
Secondly, Prayer is not valid without recitation of parts of the Quran this is not so in the case of the hadith-i qudsi.
Thirdly, one who rejects the Qur'an is regarded as a disbeliever; this does not hold true in the case of the hadith-i qudsi.
Fourthly, the whole of the Qur'an was communicated to the Prophet through the agency of the Angel Gabriel; this does not apply to the hadith-i qudsi.
Fifthly, every word of the Qur'an is the Word of God, but the wordings of the hadith-i qudsi are to be ascribed to the Prophet.
Sixthly, the Qur'an cannot be touched without purity and this condition does not apply to the Qudsi hadiths.



So you may as well conclude that the Qudsi Hadiths are the words of the Prophet but the meaning is from God and that both the words and meanings of the Quran is directly from God….








Oh and there are way more than 40 hadith qudsis. This is a confusion of the Islamic concept of collecting 40 traditions on a particular aspect as there is a great reward in it. The same has been done with the Qudsi hadiths in some presentations. It does not mean that there are only 40 hadith-e-qudsi; that's proposterous! There are way more than 40 qudsi hadiths in the books of hadith found both with the Sunnis and Shias. Just to clear it for you

ok, more examples please.

better ones this time

Ok...Let's see...

And He (i.e., Allah) it is Who created the night and the day, the sun and the moon. They float, each in a orbit

(The Noble Quran, Ya'seen 21:33)

"Some people who dare try to disprove Allah's religion quote this as proof of the Noble Qur'an's inaccuracy. "What does the sun orbit around?", they ask. This is a simple question, and can only be answered by someone with an upper-moderate knowledge of astronomy. The moon orbits the Earth. The Earth orbits the Sun. Shockingly, today's astronomers know that our Sun (on the edge of the Milky Way Galaxy) is orbiting the center of the Galaxy. Our galaxy is spiral (it kind of has dozens of "arms" spiraling outward), and our solar systems is on the edge of one of those arms.

Why we don't notice the Sun moving is because once every hundred million (much longer, actually) years, it makes a complete revolution throughout the entire galaxy ( ! ). Perhaps on the Day of Judgement, we will be in a different part of the galaxy, where scientists believe the laws of physics may not apply. Most of the universe is dark matter (we can't even see this), as we are a freckle on the face of an otherwise very smooth universe. Even that freckle is mostly anti-matter, so we are a freckle within a freckle. Our solar system has only one star, it is speculated most other systems have binary star system (two stars orbiting each other).

We are virtually one of a kind, except consider how gargantuan our freckle is. Regardless, even if a million other worlds like Earth with life exist in the universe, that's still a very rare gift (considering Allah made the whole universe, not just our freckle).

In closing the Sun does orbit something: the Galaxy. Who knows, maybe our Galaxy orbits a huge galaxy with the other galaxies. And that huge galaxy just thinks of our galaxy as another on of its satellites. And who knows how many huge galaxies there are, with their cluster of satellites, orbiting a super-galaxy. And super-galaxies orbiting ultra-galaxies. This is getting confusing.... only Allah knows. "

how can scientists think theres a place where physics don't apply? O.o

"the sun and the moon. They float, each in a orbit" makes it sound like they could both orbit us (The earth) to me, and because of this possible meaning i'd like another example please

Ya, i've read that verse before; quite significant I must say.

Some questions. Do you remember Abdullah ibn Salam (ra) that jewish scholar who converted to Islam because of the character and conduct of the Holy Prophet which perfectly coincided in the descriptions of a special prophet in the Torah? Well, we know from the story that ibn Salam tested our Prophet too with theological questions to prove if he's a true prophet or just one of those pathetic phonies. And you know from the story that Muhammed (saw) easily answered all his questions without any hesitation whatsoever. Well, the thing is, I don't really know what the questions put on our Prophet were . No one's ever told me what were the actual questions or any detail as such. So, is it ok if you can please find out what the questions were please; i'd be very grateful!

And this applies to all Muslims here. Not just Ahmed

Steve wrote:how can scientists think theres a place where physics don't apply? O.o

"the sun and the moon. They float, each in a orbit" makes it sound like they could both orbit us (The earth) to me, and because of this possible meaning i'd like another example please

Im not a scientist ...don't ask me...

Anyways, Steve I think you are reading through the context. It said nothing at all about Earth. It said the moon has an orbit and the sun has an orbit!

Let's talk about it some more before we go to another example, I think this is an amazing miracle example

Err...Ameer I never heard of that hadith, but I'll do all I can to find it !

Hey thanks Ahmed, i've read when he became Muslim and such; but no-one's ever mentioned the questions he asked the Holy Prophet.

Hmm there we go, "reading throught the context" sounds familiar to a verse from the Bible such as when Jesus called out to God!!

And as of the rules we have been following up to this (we can't use miricles cause you have your own but we call each other coinsidences) if we can't have our own opinion in a different context neither can you!!

Lol, sorry I'm topic skipping!

den denz wrote:Hmm there we go, "reading throught the context" sounds familiar to a verse from the Bible such as when Jesus called out to God!!

And as of the rules we have been following up to this (we can't use miricles cause you have your own but we call each other coinsidences) if we can't have our own opinion in a different context neither can you!!

Lol, sorry I'm topic skipping!

Lol actually Denz in the verse where I tell you Jesus is speaking to God...he is speaking to God as the verse says so.

Steve for some reason is seeing the words "rotating around Earth" in the verse eventhough it doesn't say that at all

I hope you read my reply and try to understand

yeah and you seem to think it says rotating around the universe, you can at least understand why I'm sceptical cant you?

No

Anyways, it said the moon and the sun are each in a orbit.

*Moon rotates Earth
*Sun rotates Milky Way

They didn't know at that time of the Mlky Way so there is no word for it.
Scientists ahve recently dicovered this.

It fits perfectly

in the sixteen hundreds people started to understand the earth wasn't the centre of our solar system, before then people were mainly thinking the earth was being orbited by the sun and the moon.

If you read it thinking were the centre of the solar system then it seem to be right because it looks like they are both in an orbit.

and now thanks to ahmed's "the sun is orbiting the universe's centre" evidence its right once again.


But surely he could of said something like the sun doesn't orbit the earth If it was meant to be clear

Steve wrote:in the sixteen hundreds people started to understand the earth wasn't the centre of our solar system, before then people were mainly thinking the earth was being orbited by the sun and the moon.

If you read it thinking were the centre of the solar system then it seem to be right because it looks like they are both in an orbit.

and now thanks to ahmed's "the sun is orbiting the universe's centre" evidence its right once again.


But surely he could of said something like the sun doesn't orbit the earth If it was meant to be clear

Steve, I think I need to point out that it wasn't the people that thought that Earth was the center of Earth.

It was the Catholic Church...that's what I have been thought anyways...

That's why they wanted to stop people from Galelio (if that's how you spell his name) to stop his work because they some him as a threat to the Church.

Look Steve, I see we are getting no where...so want to move on to the next one?

yes, the catholic church tried to stop Galilao in 1610 i think it was, but are you telling me 1000 years before that people accurately knew out solar system?

People didn't know accurately know the solar system...but Allah did

To further prove my point, look at this verse in the Quran:

"Among His (God's) signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth,and the living creatures that He has scattered through them :and He has power to gather them together when He wills."

(42:29)

I think this proves that Islam never said that the Earth was the center of the universe.

The Quran said that Allah made creatures and he scattered them through out the universe. Therefore we are not the only creatures that Allah made. There are creatures out there in theuniverse, in other places. So...why do you say that Islam thought the Earth is the center?