Discuss ..... (I know Hassan will )
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Pakistani Elections
Doc- NH Member
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Pakistani Elections
Well since there are atleast 3 members from Pakistan on this forum, I've decided to make a thread concerning the elections taking place in Pakistan. Last time I checked, Benazir and Nawaz Sharif's party's were in the lead .....
Discuss ..... (I know Hassan will )
Discuss ..... (I know Hassan will )
Ahmed- NH Admin
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Re: Pakistani Elections
I dont know much on the Pakistani elections....but all I want to say is....I HOPE THE OPPOSITION WINS(they are currently winning)
Sultan do you know Hassan in real life? Becasue I do....
Sultan do you know Hassan in real life? Becasue I do....
Grimmjow- NH Member
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Re: Pakistani Elections
umm i dont know about the elections is it like democrat vs republican if it is then whoevers republican otherwise i dont know
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Re: Pakistani Elections
Le Caire wrote:I dont know much on the Pakistani elections....but all I want to say is....I HOPE THE OPPOSITION WINS(they are currently winning)
Sultan do you know Hassan in real life? Becasue I do....
Wow you do? You guys in the same class or something?
Hassan- NH Retired Moderator
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Re: Pakistani Elections
Well. first of all, I know Ahmed because we volunteered in the Queens Library (Steinway Branch) last summer. I stiill volunteer, but Ahmed has way better things to do.
Anyways, the ELECTIONS.
Our election system has to be the wierdest of all (or one of the wierdest), Grimmjow. There are about 50+ parties who either contest or boycott the elections. Loads of coalitions are formed (and/or broken) and there are no official debates held. Every candidate says things (usually rude) about the opponent. All this is due to illetracy. (ALAS!).
Well, the opposition won. (Congrats Ahmed). Our nation has elected those who had failed to do good previously. They are both (Zardari of PPP and Nawaz Sharif of PML(N)) known for corrupt ways of governing, looting Pakistani treasury, building palaces for themselves!!!!!!!!
I do not expect everyone to agree with me. But it is Freedom of Speech which makes me write this. and from what I have read from Javed Ali Naqvi's book "Aur Faug A Gai" (And the army came). If you understand and can read Urdu, please read this book, Sultan. (You can find it using Queens Library catalog and can request it, I hope). and heard form various relatives, read in newspapers etc during the past nine years.
I hope that the proverb, History repeats itself, will be false in the coming days for Pakistan. I hope that we Pakistanis will have a better tomorrow.
I hope that they follow my Quaid's message of Faith, Unity, and Discipline.
I hope that the new government goes forward instead of backwards.
What are your views on it, guys?
Anyways, the ELECTIONS.
Our election system has to be the wierdest of all (or one of the wierdest), Grimmjow. There are about 50+ parties who either contest or boycott the elections. Loads of coalitions are formed (and/or broken) and there are no official debates held. Every candidate says things (usually rude) about the opponent. All this is due to illetracy. (ALAS!).
Well, the opposition won. (Congrats Ahmed). Our nation has elected those who had failed to do good previously. They are both (Zardari of PPP and Nawaz Sharif of PML(N)) known for corrupt ways of governing, looting Pakistani treasury, building palaces for themselves!!!!!!!!
I do not expect everyone to agree with me. But it is Freedom of Speech which makes me write this. and from what I have read from Javed Ali Naqvi's book "Aur Faug A Gai" (And the army came). If you understand and can read Urdu, please read this book, Sultan. (You can find it using Queens Library catalog and can request it, I hope). and heard form various relatives, read in newspapers etc during the past nine years.
I hope that the proverb, History repeats itself, will be false in the coming days for Pakistan. I hope that we Pakistanis will have a better tomorrow.
I hope that they follow my Quaid's message of Faith, Unity, and Discipline.
I hope that the new government goes forward instead of backwards.
What are your views on it, guys?
Doc- NH Member
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Re: Pakistani Elections
Well atleast the elections seemed to be fair for the first time in Pakistans corrupt history. Hopefully something will be done about the high illteracy rate in our country, but I don't expect these people to actually care for the Pakistani public and maybe they don't deserve it if they re-elect the same zalims ....
Ahmed- NH Admin
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Re: Pakistani Elections
Hassan if you hadnt noticed this election was the fairest in all of Pakistans history. You are blinded by all the promises that the corrupt general, Musharaf, makes. Give the opposition that actually cares for the country a try.
and yes Sultan I know Hassan, from last year when i voluntereed at a library(I had to becase of school). He is in 10th grade though(Im in 9th). And our first debate ever, wanst a great one, we never agree, as in my opinion Hassan is hard headed (JK). Besides all that I could say we're good friends.
Sultan I would bet he would be the best of your friends if you knew him in real life. (There are lots of similarities between you and him)
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Could you Sultan or Hassan please tell me why the opposition is bad. And if the opposition is bad then how come the Paki-people elected them?
and yes Sultan I know Hassan, from last year when i voluntereed at a library(I had to becase of school). He is in 10th grade though(Im in 9th). And our first debate ever, wanst a great one, we never agree, as in my opinion Hassan is hard headed (JK). Besides all that I could say we're good friends.
Sultan I would bet he would be the best of your friends if you knew him in real life. (There are lots of similarities between you and him)
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Could you Sultan or Hassan please tell me why the opposition is bad. And if the opposition is bad then how come the Paki-people elected them?
Grimmjow- NH Member
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Re: Pakistani Elections
no one anserwed my question before is it like democrat vs republican or not?
Hassan- NH Retired Moderator
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Re: Pakistani Elections
Well, Grimmjow, you did not read my post then. It is, as I wrote, based on various different parties. Not like Democrat and Republicans.
Ahmed, first of all what does (JK) means? This election does seem to be the fairest yet. I agree. However, according to Geo TV, an independent Pakistani news channel, less than 50% of the registered voters actually voted!!!
What's wrong with PPP and PML (N)? Both parties came to power twice in the 90's. Corruption, unemployment, and inflation was at its highest and reached new peaks during around 9 year seperate rule of these parties. There are news of Bhutto's (PPP) building of a palace in Switzerland using Pakistan's treasury while she was PM. Her husband, and today head of the PPP, Zardari, is largely known for corruption. Nawaz Sharif of PML(N) build himself a large estate in Lahore while he was PM. Both of them were given chances in the past and they looted. Ironically, they themself abused the Supreme Court when they were in power and now they portray themselve as just. Islam callls this type of person a MUNAFIQ, right Ahmed?
By the way, what pomises did Musharaff made?
Waiting for your response...
Ahmed, first of all what does (JK) means? This election does seem to be the fairest yet. I agree. However, according to Geo TV, an independent Pakistani news channel, less than 50% of the registered voters actually voted!!!
What's wrong with PPP and PML (N)? Both parties came to power twice in the 90's. Corruption, unemployment, and inflation was at its highest and reached new peaks during around 9 year seperate rule of these parties. There are news of Bhutto's (PPP) building of a palace in Switzerland using Pakistan's treasury while she was PM. Her husband, and today head of the PPP, Zardari, is largely known for corruption. Nawaz Sharif of PML(N) build himself a large estate in Lahore while he was PM. Both of them were given chances in the past and they looted. Ironically, they themself abused the Supreme Court when they were in power and now they portray themselve as just. Islam callls this type of person a MUNAFIQ, right Ahmed?
By the way, what pomises did Musharaff made?
Waiting for your response...
Grimmjow- NH Member
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Re: Pakistani Elections
oh ya i forgot about it
Doc- NH Member
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Re: Pakistani Elections
My final word: they're all lying, corrupt crooks and whoever you elect is going to somehow mess up Pakistan even further. What say you Hassan? Or are you still up with Musharaff?
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Re: Pakistani Elections
Hassan: JK means "just kidding"
Munafiq means in Arabic "Hypocrite" and people who claim to want the best for their country and give money to their masters, then yes those are Muanfeeqeen.
Sultan: I agree with you,Musharaff was a western puppet. Musharaff did everything when the west give him the green light, if the west didnt want Musharaff to do something he wouldnt dare do it. He is also a Munafiq, he is a Munafiq to his religion
Munafiq means in Arabic "Hypocrite" and people who claim to want the best for their country and give money to their masters, then yes those are Muanfeeqeen.
Sultan: I agree with you,Musharaff was a western puppet. Musharaff did everything when the west give him the green light, if the west didnt want Musharaff to do something he wouldnt dare do it. He is also a Munafiq, he is a Munafiq to his religion
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Re: Pakistani Elections
Thanks Ahmed for broadening my vocabulary!
Sultan, I think you ar wrong in saying that all of them are bad. The present does look dark, but as we say in Urdu, Khuda key hain der hain, undher nahein (can you please translate this in English! I can not find the right words)There must be some good, but the bad do not allow them to do good for our country. I have hope that tomorrow's generation, our generation that is, will get rid of this double politics and really do good.
Ahmed, it would be very interesting to ponder whether President Musharraf played on the west's hands, or the west played on President Musharraff's hands? (considering his undemocratic moves, such as the coup in 99, th emergency in 07, the ties with Afghanistan and Pakistan's position in the OIC).
Sultan, I think you ar wrong in saying that all of them are bad. The present does look dark, but as we say in Urdu, Khuda key hain der hain, undher nahein (can you please translate this in English! I can not find the right words)There must be some good, but the bad do not allow them to do good for our country. I have hope that tomorrow's generation, our generation that is, will get rid of this double politics and really do good.
Ahmed, it would be very interesting to ponder whether President Musharraf played on the west's hands, or the west played on President Musharraff's hands? (considering his undemocratic moves, such as the coup in 99, th emergency in 07, the ties with Afghanistan and Pakistan's position in the OIC).
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Re: Pakistani Elections
Hassan wrote:Thanks Ahmed for broadening my vocabulary!
Sultan, I think you ar wrong in saying that all of them are bad. The present does look dark, but as we say in Urdu, Khuda key hain der hain, undher nahein (can you please translate this in English! I can not find the right words)There must be some good, but the bad do not allow them to do good for our country. I have hope that tomorrow's generation, our generation that is, will get rid of this double politics and really do good.
Ahmed, it would be very interesting to ponder whether President Musharraf played on the west's hands, or the west played on President Musharraff's hands? (considering his undemocratic moves, such as the coup in 99, th emergency in 07, the ties with Afghanistan and Pakistan's position in the OIC).
No Problem.
ROFL the west were being played by Musharaf X ) (Thast just so funny)
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Hassan this is Musharaffs good compared to bad:
1:10000000000000000000000000000
A small good doesnt matter in the long run.
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Re: Pakistani Elections
Hassan wrote:Thanks Ahmed for broadening my vocabulary!
Sultan, I think you ar wrong in saying that all of them are bad. The present does look dark, but as we say in Urdu, Khuda key hain der hain, undher nahein (can you please translate this in English! I can not find the right words)There must be some good, but the bad do not allow them to do good for our country. I have hope that tomorrow's generation, our generation that is, will get rid of this double politics and really do good.
Ahmed, it would be very interesting to ponder whether President Musharraf played on the west's hands, or the west played on President Musharraff's hands? (considering his undemocratic moves, such as the coup in 99, th emergency in 07, the ties with Afghanistan and Pakistan's position in the OIC).
So far every leader of Pakistan, excluding Qaid e Azam, has tried to take advantage of the country and its people in some fashion. Unless things change over night my opinion on politicians and politics won't shift. I'm probably being overly critical but its my honest opinion. Musharraf outwardly has appeared to be another ghulam (slave) of the West but Allaho Al'am if he actually got the better of the West.
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Re: Pakistani Elections
Sultan, as you said, we did not had many decent politicians. I believe that as we can not do anything about the past, we should try to hope high for the future while living in the present. We both know that Pakistan has a very low literacy rate. This is in favor of the current politicians, because they do not want all the workers, farmers, etc asking them question. We need to change the way things are done in our dear country. I know that I can not do much today, but hopefully, we would be able to do good for Paksitan in our future. Remember, change rarely comes overnight; it takes time my friend.
As Allama Iqbal said: Milat ke sath rabta-e-istawar rakh
Pewasta reh shagar se, umeed-e-bahar rakh
Ahmed, name some of the bad things Musharraf did (we might actually agree on some!).
As Allama Iqbal said: Milat ke sath rabta-e-istawar rakh
Pewasta reh shagar se, umeed-e-bahar rakh
Ahmed, name some of the bad things Musharraf did (we might actually agree on some!).
Ahmed- NH Admin
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Re: Pakistani Elections
When Musharraf came to power, he claimed that the corruption in the government bureaucracy would be cleaned up. However, as many analysts have noted, his regime has done little to quash corruption, even years into his administration.
According to a survey by Transparency International, Pakistani public opinion perceived the first and second terms of Musharraf's administration as respectively more corrupt than the first and second terms of previous administrations led by Bhutto and Sharif, respectively.[45][46] However, that survey also indicates that public opinion perceived the second terms of all three leaders as being more corrupt than their first terms, respectively. And, furthermore, any one of those leader's second terms was perceived as being more corrupt than any of those leaders first terms.[45] In fact, Bhutto's second term was perceived as being the second most corrupt according to those sampled by the survey. Musharraf's second term was perceived as being the most corrupt term of office among the those of the three leaders.
According to a combined poll by Dawn News, Indian Express and CNN-IBN, a majority believe that corruption during this administration has increased. An Asian Development Bank report on the state of the country during the 60th year of Independence describes it as a country with "poor governance, endemic corruption and social indicators that are among the worst in Asia".
There have also been allegations that corrupt servicemen aren't being prosecuted because of the junta's clout.[50] Pakistani media too have alleged that individual corruption of the previous government was replaced by institutionalised corruption of the Pakistan Army, awarding land deeds and a life of luxury to its officers.
Later in 2007, his government cost national exchequer hundreds of millions of rupees to hire teams of expensive lawyers to represent his government in courts. In one such case regarding the privatization of Pakistan Steel Mills Corporation, whose worth was stated to be Rupees 600 billion, and which was sold out for mere Rupees 20.6 billions, the government had spent Rupees 90 million (£900.000), with Sharifuddin Pirzada alone getting away with 6.6 million rupees (£66,000).
(wikipedia)
According to a survey by Transparency International, Pakistani public opinion perceived the first and second terms of Musharraf's administration as respectively more corrupt than the first and second terms of previous administrations led by Bhutto and Sharif, respectively.[45][46] However, that survey also indicates that public opinion perceived the second terms of all three leaders as being more corrupt than their first terms, respectively. And, furthermore, any one of those leader's second terms was perceived as being more corrupt than any of those leaders first terms.[45] In fact, Bhutto's second term was perceived as being the second most corrupt according to those sampled by the survey. Musharraf's second term was perceived as being the most corrupt term of office among the those of the three leaders.
According to a combined poll by Dawn News, Indian Express and CNN-IBN, a majority believe that corruption during this administration has increased. An Asian Development Bank report on the state of the country during the 60th year of Independence describes it as a country with "poor governance, endemic corruption and social indicators that are among the worst in Asia".
There have also been allegations that corrupt servicemen aren't being prosecuted because of the junta's clout.[50] Pakistani media too have alleged that individual corruption of the previous government was replaced by institutionalised corruption of the Pakistan Army, awarding land deeds and a life of luxury to its officers.
Later in 2007, his government cost national exchequer hundreds of millions of rupees to hire teams of expensive lawyers to represent his government in courts. In one such case regarding the privatization of Pakistan Steel Mills Corporation, whose worth was stated to be Rupees 600 billion, and which was sold out for mere Rupees 20.6 billions, the government had spent Rupees 90 million (£900.000), with Sharifuddin Pirzada alone getting away with 6.6 million rupees (£66,000).
(wikipedia)
Grimmjow- NH Member
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Re: Pakistani Elections
wikipedia isnt 100% true though
Ahmed- NH Admin
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Re: Pakistani Elections
Grimmjow wrote:wikipedia isnt 100% true though
They had MANY citations for the paragraph that I posted.
Hassan- NH Retired Moderator
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Re: Pakistani Elections
Ok So one bad thing about Musharraf administration: Corruption. Some thing we both agree on. Next!
Ahmed- NH Admin
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Re: Pakistani Elections
Hassan wrote:Ok So one bad thing about Musharraf administration: Corruption. Some thing we both agree on. Next!
Corruption is a very broad term for all the bad things that a leader has
Grimmjow- NH Member
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Re: Pakistani Elections
alright im not sure on that 100% thing either one of my teachers said that last year but its by random people. since theres sitations i guess its one of those 100%s
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Re: Pakistani Elections
wikipedia can be 100% true but it isnt seen as a reliable source of information because anyone could write an article
Ahmed- NH Admin
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Re: Pakistani Elections
Its true when they have cititations
Steve- NH Member
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Re: Pakistani Elections
yeah but i could write a letter to my local paper, reference my paper on my website and write an article about it, then reference my website on wikipedia and it would look like a good citation. Lots of citations is a good sign tho.